Dr. Debra Houry, the chief medical officer for the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, was escorted from the facility on Thursday following the firing of the full department's director, Susan Monarez, on Wednesday.

Speaking to MSNBC on Thursday, Houry, who resigned in protest of Monarez's ouster, said things at the CDC have been "really difficult when it comes to having science and data-driven decisions."

Speaking to substitute host Erielle Reshef, Houry noted that there's a vaccine meeting planned in a few weeks, and there is a fear that they will be making decisions without the data and science.

"So, myself and a few other senior officials have been really talking about what can we do to protect the agency," said Houry. "We were also concerned when Dr. Monarez was called to the secretary's office after trying to make some updates and scientific improvements to this vaccine work. She was not allowed to do those and so we had determined that if we don't have a scientific leader at the agency, we could not remain."

Heath and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. claimed that this CDC bloodbath was really more about "the culture" inside the department, but Houry disagrees. She noted that there is sometimes a persistent complaint that the CDC is "insular and not transparent," but she never saw that.

"I would argue that CDC scientists are rigorous, extremely collaborative, and have been transparent. We put our data on the website. We have dashboards, extensive reviews that we open for public comment. And I came from outside about 10 years ago from academia. I can tell you that the CDC scientists are top-notch and excellent," she said.

The preference is for CDC officials to have more interactions with the secretary, but the senior leaders and scientists were never given the opportunity to even brief Kennedy on the issues.

Even during the first Trump administration, she said that the CDC was doing excellent work. So, she thinks this situation is "less about politics and more about ideology."

When it comes to her fears moving forward, Dr. Houry gave an impassioned plea for the public to "pay attention" because the country is "in trouble."

"I love the CDC. I loved my job, but it came to the tipping point to where I could no longer stay. I was worrying about some of the things that were going to come out, that I would then be complicit in allowing these unscientific things to happen," she confessed. "I and Dr. Jernigan and Dr. Daskalakis — we were going to really send a signal that CDC is in trouble. Public health is in trouble."

She added that other leaders might also leave and that there's simply not enough staff to handle another outbreak like COVID-19. Among the actions by President Donald Trump's administration was to make significant cuts to the government workforce. Some were terminated while others took early retirements.

"We can't prevent chronic diseases in communities because we don't have the resources anymore," Dr. Houry said, sounding the alarm.

See the interview below or at the link here.

- YouTube youtu.be