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ABC News reporter Jonathan Karl said in a new interview that a recent incident is a perfect sign that former Presidents Barack Obama and Joe Biden are on the outs.

Karl spoke to news personality and podcaster Katie Couric on her show last week about how Obama and Biden were spotted eating at Café Milano one night last month in Washington, D.C., to the point their security details had to make space for each other, yet Obama and his former vice president did not cross paths.

"They didn't interact at all, they were in the same restaurant?" Couric asked in disbelief. "What's their relationship like?"

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"Really bad. Really bad," Karl replied on the Nov. 6

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