Joe Rogan has finally called out Donald Trump on one of his most audacious claims—the idea that the 2020 election was stolen. During a conversation with Trump ahead of the 2024 election, Rogan directly asked the former president why he believed the election was rigged. Trump’s response was filled with vague accusations of “old-fashioned ballot screwing” and “phony votes,” but he grew defensive when Rogan pushed him further.

“I don’t think they have any evidence,” Rogan said on his podcast Tuesday. “I think there’s a lot of speculation and there’s a lot of consideration about mail-in ballots. There’s a lot of shenanigans. There’s a good record of shenanigans, and the reality is that any kind of electronics can be hacked.”

Rogan’s guest, comedian Dave Smith, also weighed in, noting,

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